WaistAway87's Journal, 13 Jan 21

This is a sincere question for those would like to engage, I would really appreciate a discussion with honest answers - where do you guys feel is the line is with recommending someone up their calories (for example someone eating below 800cal a day as a diet method), and on the other hand supporting someone else that is fasting for days on end (so zero calories).... I am wondering this for myself, how is one justifiable and the other not? Even for myself, for example I am following a keto, but I eat at least 2 meals a day and try intermittent fasting for 16 to 20 hours. I tried a 36 hour fast this week, but I stopped at 25 hours. As someone who has struggled with the mental aspect of my relationship with food when I was younger (for example seriously calorie depriving my body, pushing my body to exercise itself in to a calorie deficit etc)... So what do we accept as healthy and what not?.......

View Diet Calendar, 13 January 2021:
1269 kcal Fat: 95.62g | Prot: 62.92g | Carbs: 20.95g.   Lunch: Droewors, Macadamia Nuts , We Love Low Carb Bread, Clover Butro, Woolworths Salami Sticks, Woolworths Kalamata Tapenade, Canderel Milk & Nutty Chocolate, Tony Ferguson Dietary Fibre Capsules . Dinner: Woolworths Kassler Chops, Woolworths Button Mushrooms, Broccoli , Extra Virgin Olive Oil, Butter , Tony Ferguson Dietary Fibre Capsules , Canderel Milk & Nutty Chocolate. more...
1891 kcal Exercise: Walking (slow) - 3/kph - 1 hour, Resting - 15 hours, Sleeping - 8 hours. more...

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I guess it’s justifiable for the fast because it’s a short burst of exceedingly low calories. However, if you stick to an 800 calorie diet the entire time, you’re not sufficiently nourishing your body. You’re depriving your body of it’s minimal needs to function for an extended period of time. From my aspect I think that’s the difference. I personally haven’t don’t a fast over 20 hours, and don’t think it’s a very healthy option- but that’s just from my point of view. From a medical point of view, I understand that the body can withstand short bursts of these water fasts. 
13 Jan 21 by member: Seshni17
I read somewhere that the benefits of fasting start to decrease from 48 hours, but there is also the topic of autophagy that some people say they are after. But what I am mostly referring to is 3 to 7 even up to 9 day days people are doing  
13 Jan 21 by member: WaistAway87
I guess we all in a learning process every person has a different lifestyle or different activity levels that they body can handle. We all hv tried different eating plans and then give up bcoz it becomes monotonous and does not fit into our lives so we eventually give up and find ourselves miserable with our weight and it starts again. For me I'm following a balance right now within a calorie deficit exercising I mean dancing lol bcoz it's wat I love this way my mind and body is healthy and I'm feeling good bot this for once.  
13 Jan 21 by member: Devika.R
I try and wonder sometimes, if my daughter one day said to me she is doing a 7 day fast (not including for religious reasons for example), would I give it a round of applause, or like if I noticed her eating extremely little would I recommend she eat more? I would like to say no and yes - I think I am just trying to understand why is "fasting" different to starving yourself for a week or only eating 500cal a day to lose weight  
13 Jan 21 by member: WaistAway87
I believe your body needs the vitamins, minerals and nutrients that you’d be starving it for a 7 day or longer fast. I wouldn’t advise anyone to keep up with it. A balanced diet is what is needed. A fast here and there should be alright though if a dietician recommends it. Not healthy at all for diabetics, kids and anyone with health issues.  
13 Jan 21 by member: Seshni17
But definitely 800 calories a day isn’t sufficient for an adult.  
13 Jan 21 by member: Seshni17
Both are flawed depending on the mental context behind it. Both can be a form of purging. Indulge a little and then fast to correct it is already the same mentality as eating below 1000 cal. The metabolism slows down from long periods of low cal. However extended water fasts twice a year or so could be beneficial for restructuring and balancing the relationship with food and healing the metabolism . But when done regularly it can be assumed it's not from a place of balance/discipline or self love. I like to always ask myself... Does this fit in with long term self love and goals or is it a quick fix punishment/ deprivation sentence. Mental health is a real thing. If someone is justifying and explaining their actions before you even ask a question... And food/weight is all they can think... Talk about. They are probably not in a good place mentally to even receive advice. Defense mechanisms will kick in to maintain their form of control over the "problem" (weight)  
13 Jan 21 by member: iceynino
Disclaimer: Just so everyone knows, this isn't about judging others for their choices, just wanting to understand, particularly for myself. I am a mother and having a daughter especially made me want to make a lot of healthier choices for her. Not to say that men don't, but I do feel woman are more easily affected by weight and what people may say one day and how one feels about yourself. 
14 Jan 21 by member: WaistAway87
I think I am just mainly wondering why we as a community (specific now to FS, because this is the app I use and where we post questions, support, guidance for one another etc), why do we cheer for someone who doesn't eat for 5 days (sometimes several times a year), but we explain to those that severely calorie restrict that they are eating too little....fasting is extreme calorie restriction? Not referring to intermittent fasting to eat your required calories for weight loss (say 1500cal between 12:00 and 20:00), but specifically fast for 3 days and up - I've seen up to 9 days during the year that I've been on here. 
14 Jan 21 by member: WaistAway87
@Kesh - I am not sure how tall you are, could be that you are very short, but for example 700cal a day would be very little (again please don't think I am judging, just trying to understand). You mentioned that your maintaining calories are 1200cal, which would mean your BMR (basal metabolic rate - the amount of calories you need to survive) is 1200cal, but I believe that the average BMR for a female is between 1600-2200cal, depending on your height and activity level. When you set up your goals on the app you need to select weight loss, maintain, weight gain - if you selected weight loss and it gave you 1200cal, that means you need to eat 1200cal to lose weight. However yoh also mentioned that if you eat Iver 700cal you gain or maintain - and you have lost 20kg by eating 700cal (which is amazing by the way)...but isn't it a possibility that your metabolism has been heavily slowed by your body kicking itself in to survival mode and therefore holding on to every calorie it can to keep you from starvation? But again you may be very short. But now to link this to fasting, how is it different from severely restricting calories - maybe someone has some scientific knowledge for me... I don't know, because like mentioned below it can also be a form of purging, but would it not also slow your metabolism as does above - if the aim is to heal and have a great metabolism, then why fast for a week? 
14 Jan 21 by member: WaistAway87
For me I don’t think you should ever advise someone on their methods unless asked. If what they’re doing isn’t sustainable they will quit in the long run. All you can do is be there for them. Because you have to understand that people have toxic relationships with food. When you judge them for their habits they will just start hiding what they are doing from you. And then when it all comes crashing down they will be too ashamed to admit it. 
14 Jan 21 by member: masenya1738
@Masenya1738 - I really like the way you put that, it's so true, ones relationship with food can be so so toxic, hand in hand with body image, and I know exactly what it's like to, like you say, "hide" things from someone that might have felt they trying to help. Ai - I think just as a mother i want to be as prepared as possible to help my kids and equip them as best as possible. They still little so I have lots of time to learn and grow. It's so important to have a healthy relationship myself, because they do what you do, not what you say 
14 Jan 21 by member: WaistAway87
I agree with you Danie. I don’t like counting calories because I always end up eating ‘less’ than my recommended. But at the same time my family will look at what I’m eating and ask how do i possibly finish what I’m eating. I eat a lot of vegetables and vegetables are low in calorie count. Just eat guys. Your body will tell you if you’re under eating if you lose weight drastically and feel weak. And if you over eat you will gain weight and feel tired all the time. Then you need to adjust accordingly. This thing is not a one size fits all. 
14 Jan 21 by member: masenya1738
I agree about the purging side of it. I would guess it would fall under those. But I don’t know where the line is drawn nowadays. How is it okay to tell people not to be bulimic but cheer on people to continue prolonged fasts...? Both are destructive and both are purges. I am confused myself what’s supposed to okay to support people in. And when you want to advise your daughter I would say the best option is to teach her how to eat healthily instead of her having to come to these confusing decisions.  
14 Jan 21 by member: Seshni17
i know you ask this from a mothers perspective, so as a daughter’s perspective, i am 18 years old, my mom would not let me fast, she doesn’t even like me skipping meals, people’s opinions change when they have children because then they realize both restricting and fasting isn’t always healthy and its not what they want for their child. 
15 Jan 21 by member: redgirl12_3
Hi Redgirl - thank you for your honest answer, especially from a younger perspective, you've lost an incredible amount of weight and you must be very proud. Take care of yourself as well - just like fasting take care to not eat too few calories and damage your metabolism ❤️ 
15 Jan 21 by member: WaistAway87
I think you raise very valuable questions. For me as a mom, I have worked hard to help my children grow up both with a healthy body image and healthy relationship to food, both things I wasn't given as a child. So I would always advise my daughters if they ever got there to do small things, be active, eat less sugar in their tea, etc. I think many of us on these forums maybe have other things that led us here, not learning good habits, abuse/neglect, self hated or emotional things that come with weight- so I think from a moms perspective what I mean is I'm doing everything I can to help my girls not end up like me (I had an abusive childhood, was forced to exercise, hit if I didn't, but also had a mother who was a feeder, eventually developed an eating dosorder and abuse of laxatives, etc etc 
16 Jan 21 by member: jespes26
So as someone who had a severe eating disorder (and weighed half of what I do now!) extended regular fasts are what I did then and they aren't the way we were designed to live. When I see people do that or say 'I over ate today now I'm fasting for X days' it's very triggering as I was on so many pro-anorexia sites and groups as a teenager and those are the exact same behaviors I would see on there. Also many people espouse the benefits of fasting like you'll see on some glossy websites but behind that if you spend solid time looking at the research on it, most of the benefits are seen for short term fasts (14-16 hours up to 24/36) and almost every study was done on men not women! So I think also the question shouldn't just be what helos me lose weight but what helps me have a healthy sustainable relationship with food and what is good for my body  
16 Jan 21 by member: jespes26
But I was thinking a lot about this because I remember posting a while back about sometimes not reaching my calorie goal, say only getting to 900 cals on the odd day but not feeling hungry what should I do? And getting a lot of strong replies about starvation mode and how bad it is for me etc but niw we praise people who don't eat for days and days. Anyway so for me it would be a question also of sustainability and what is going on in the person's head - ie are they fasting because they are punishing themselves,self hatred etc. And then is it balanced, so fasting once a week or twice a month etc. Or is it going the extremes.  
16 Jan 21 by member: jespes26
I wish this app had a like button because that was insightful  
16 Jan 21 by member: masenya1738

     
 

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